ICYMI: Check out this behind the scenes video as we wrap-up Season 1 of our "HR in the Car" podcast.

We’ve unlocked the trunk on our season one wrap-up with Joe Bonilla (Episode 22), Trent Griffin-Braaf (Episode 10), and Catherine Hover (Episode 2) - our panel of serial entrepreneurs! - from sharing learning moments over the last year to what’s coming for each of them. Want landlord horror stories? Check. Looking for their take on building lasting relationships in business? Check. Need to hear our famous “car horn” more than a couple of times? Check! We’ve got that and more, including questions from our guests for Miriam and Tom. So close the glove box, set the cruise control, and listen in to our great season finale!

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Voiceover: Welcome to HR in the Car with Miriam Dushane and Tom Schin of Alaant Workforce Solutions. We're exciting. Hr professionals and business leaders share laughter, insider stories and maybe even a few tears about HR in today's world. Buckle up for the best half hour of your week.

Tom Schin: Wow, a year's gone by in a flash, hasn't it?

Miriam Dushane: Time flies when you're having fun.

We're here again for our wrap-up show. Not again, but we're here today for our wrap-up show for season one of HR in the Car brought to you by Alaant Workforce Solutions. We're excited to talk about different things that we've come across over the course of the year how the shows evolved, what new experiences we've had, fun stories we've learned about folks. I took some notes. You don't get to see them because I'm hiding them here. Miriam and I are going to share a little bit of some of our favorite pieces here. You can look at my chicken scratch if you want. It's all good.

Miriam Dushane: I can't read it anyway.

Tom Schin: I think to me the couple of things that stood out most was those wild and crazy thoughts about folks that you never knew. Like Joan Marie's nunnery piece, I loved how John Kuznia talked about being a cardiothoracic surgeon as his intro piece, and then, of course, Jen Massey's toolkit that she brought to us, which we carried for the rest of the season. Yep, absolutely, what were some of?

Miriam Dushane: Your highlights, oh gosh. Well, John Baggy is always a favorite of mine because he has great stories, because he's a labor attorney. I mean, we have our wonderful favorite guests of the season here today, which is why we asked them all to come back, because we probably could have talked to each one of them for two hours or more, and they're all doing great things. That's a highlight for me And, honestly, another highlight for me is just the feedback that we've gotten in the community. A lot of people come up to me and they'll be like oh, I listened to your podcast. We've actually made connections through the podcast.

So what I mean by that is not us making connections, but a person came up to me yesterday and said, oh, I met Betty. And I was like oh, how'd you meet Betty? Well, she heard me on your podcast, so she reached out to me because she wanted to meet me And it was basically a segue for people to meet each other. And I had a woman in an event we were at yesterday come up to me. She's like hi, I listened to your podcast And I was almost like fan girl in a way, but it was so sweet. And I was like, wow, people actually like this.

Tom Schin: You get that little giddy moment when somebody says I listened to you, you're like wait, but you know who we are.

Miriam Dushane: Yes, so I think those are some of the highlights for me. So I'm looking forward to getting an update from our wonderful guests, Joe and Catherine and Trent, and just talk just a little bit more about what they're doing, and then we'll have a nice little conversation And we ask them to ask us a couple of questions and things that they might be interested in knowing, whether it's personal, professional, about us or not about us. That's okay too, but so yeah, Yeah, we're excited.

Tom Schin: So welcome Joe Bonilla from Motor Oil Coffee

Miriam Dushane: There he is.

Tom Schin: and Relentless Awareness. And Catherine Hover, here from the Palette Community and Paint and Sip up in Saratoga. And Trent Griffin I'm going to butcher your name, we'll try that again. And Trent Griffin-Braaf, Tech Valley Shuttle, among his many other operations. So thanks for joining us.

Catherine Hover: Yeah, thanks for having us.

Joe Bonilla: Great to be here.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Yes indeed.

Tom Schin: Joe's got a radio voice.

Miriam Dushane: Joe's turned on his radio voice.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Can not compete with that.

Catherine Hover: Or as Tom would say, fantastic.

Tom Schin: Fantastic.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: So is everyone a serial entrepreneur Like has multiple businesses.

Joe Bonilla: Yeah…

Miriam Dushane: We didn't realize that when we asked you all to come back, but now that we're all sitting together, we're like, oh look, what we did.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Right.

Catherine Hover: We're all crazy.

Miriam Dushane: Yeah but that's what makes you great, right? So, Joe, tell us a little bit about everything that you've been working on. I know you opened at least two more?

Joe Bonilla: So when I came on the show last, we had just opened up State Street in Albany.

Miriam Dushane: You HAD opened that one. Yes.

Joe Bonilla: And since then we opened up at the time of this recording, Madison Avenue in Albany, two days ago.

Miriam Dushane: Is the wine ready yet on that one?

Joe Bonilla: Very soon.

Miriam Dushane: Okay

Joe Bonilla: Yeah, very, very soon.

Miriam Dushane: You have my cell phone right. I do. You will be one of the first to know.

Tom Schin: Wine, coffee, just mixing them together, right?

Joe Bonilla: And then we have two more opening one in Stillwater in a partnership with Upton Coffee, now we'll open up in two more weeks. And then Slip 12 in downtown Albany in about six weeks. So we'll have five in total by the end of the summer.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Let's go.

Tom Schin: Catherine knows all about that. She had her multiple paint and sips run-in and trying to control the universe in that space.

Catherine Hover: Yes.

Miriam Dushane: Global domination right?

Catherine Hover: Yes, yes, exactly, and I will never, ever, ever, be in the food service business again. We killed our cafe at the end of '21, and it is just not what I want to do. So kudos to you, because it takes it's a lot of work.

Joe Bonilla: It is a lot.

Catherine Hover: And yeah, I'm just, I'm better on the other side of the counter, so, drinking lots of coffee Yeah, drinking lots of coffee.

Joe Bonilla: We need lots of those. Lots of customers.

Catherine Hover: But, yeah.

Miriam Dushane: So, Catherine, when you were here last, you literally came from 40 under 40 to do our podcast, and I had the pleasure of celebrating you just a few weeks ago and the category of women of excellence, which I, of course, am also a member of, that that what would we call it? Sorority?

Tom Schin: Alumni?

Miriam Dushane: Either way. So tell us what else you've been up to.

Catherine Hover: Yeah, so that was like a whirlwind and that was also like the week of, or the week after I was on the cover of the Albany Business Review.

Miriam Dushane: Oh, that's right!

Catherine Hover: So there was a lot of attention on me and I like to like create attention, but not necessarily like on me, you know, like I'm of the mindset, like I spotlight others, so it was a lot like emotionally turbulent for and a lot of imposter syndrome, like, what is this, you know? is this like really valid, you know? so there were some things that had to work through. But yeah, and if it was up to me, I probably would have spread that press out a little more.

Miriam Dushane: You're right, it did kind of come…

Tom Schin: Over a three-week span: Catherine, Catherine, Catherine, Catherine

Catherine Hover: Right right, you know, which I appreciate and I love, and you know it feels awesome just to be able to have that platform to share about our community and what we're doing and all the awesome people that are doing things too. So but yeah, I mean the reporter from Albany Business Review. She called me in January to basically say they wanted to do this profile piece on me, and so, of course, I come from a place of yes, and I was like, yeah, sure, whatever. And she goes, but like let me tell you more about how in depth this will be. This will be, like you know, three to four days of me following you, shadowing you, your every move.

Miriam Dushane: Oh, boy.

Catherine Hover: And she was serious, and so I'm an all-in person, so I said yes. And you know we went with it. Yeah, she showed up at my house at like 7:30 in the morning on a day when I didn't realize that the two little ones didn't have school, and it was also like a parent-teacher conference day.

Tom Schin: Oh perfect!

Catherine Hover: So she sat in. She like, literally, sat in the chair with the teacher and talked all about, like,

Trent Griffin-Braaf: How your kids…

Catherine Hover: …about my parenting…

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Yeah, about your parenting…

Catherine Hover: So, like my husband travels to work a lot, so he wasn't around for that. So yeah, so Sam sat in, and she asked questions too. So I thought that was like you know, whatever, i'm an open book.

Tom Schin: Did she give you parenting tips along the way about homework?

Catherine Hover: No, but around three o'clock that day she like I had packed lunches and stuff for my kids to eat, but at around three o'clock she's like, do you like stop to eat? And I was like, oh yeah, let's just like let's do a little drive-through action and I'll feed you.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: and I'll feed you…

Catherine Hover: I mean, I am just go go go all day, every day. I don't have much of a gap in between. And I've really integrated, like my home life and my personal life in with the business. So yeah, she was, she was here for it, the whole, the whole three days.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: So she was here for it. So she was here for it! Love it.

Tom Schin: Trent, what about you?

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Well, man, since the last time I was on the show, probably the biggest thing has been the SBA, who named me the Small Business Person of the Year for Upstate New York. That's probably been the biggest thing. There's some other things that are coming down the pipe where I can't even speak on yet because it hasn't come out.

Tom Schin: We're good, we're good. You can tell us.

Miriam Dushane: Yeah!

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I wish I could, but I'm, I gotta be closed mouth about things. So started working with a PR firm doing a lot more spreading kind of the nuggets out about what we're doing helping returning citizens, and that's gathering a lot of attention. Yesterday, I think I actually just did a, I was a keynote for a web series for the for the Department of Labor and Workforce GPS. Had about 1200 leaders in HR from across the nation on the call, connecting with a couple from different states and um, hopefully, be able to share my knowledge across the nation.

Miriam Dushane: We were talking about you yesterday because we did…

Trent Griffin-Braaf: That's why my ears were ringing…

Miriam Dushane: That's why they were ringing, because we were talking about an event that we want to do towards the end of the year, kind of in in coupling with our hiring index, which we just did event more recently. And one of the the participants came up afterwards and she said you know, it would be a really interesting event if you incorporated individuals who are working with or have had success stories with, underserved, underprivileged, marginalized, second chances type demographics and how it's working and so we just start down, we start scribbling, we're like we need to talk to Trent, we need to talk to this person, we need to talk to that person. But you are on our list for that because. you know, when I think second chances and I think you know hiring people who have been formerly incarcerated, you're the first person I think of because your story and the success that you've had is, I think, really compelling and more employers need to continue to change their mindsets. And they're not there yet. We were just talking about it today that employers say all the right things. You had a conversation with a client where they're like we really want you know diverse background and we're not just talking skin color, we're talking, you know of all backgrounds and everything. And then we said so if we had a candidate that was neurodiverse, well, they have to communicate well and they have to fit in with us and they have to be, you know, with our culture. So it's like, okay, you don't get it.

Tom Schin: Well, that's just it. They talk about their culture, which is not inclusive, which is what they described.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: And that's really what it comes down to building a culture, the right culture that supports, empowers, and in doing so, you will become an employer choice. People are going to want to come to your organization, but it has to be in alignment with your view, your values, your mission. All of those things have to be in alignment for it to work for any of these different populations.

Miriam Dushane: Absolutely, and you were featured more recently in a Business Review too, I think. It was like more of, but it wasn't just you, it was the entire company.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Yeah, and I'm like you,

Miriam Dushane: which is great.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Like I'm naturally an introvert, So like, even if you see me in a lot of settings like group settings, awards, any of that I'm typically going to try to find somewhere where I could kind of be alone to myself somewhere. I do know how to be outgoing, but naturally I just naturally like to kind of be alone.

Tom Schin: Wallflower? Catherine's not a wallflower.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: She's not. You could be, though, but you might just be like me and be able to step out your shell and do it at such a good rate, a way that people don't notice it, but-

Catherine Hover: I usually crash like, especially after Women of Excellence,

Miriam Dushane: I was like I was just going to say. Usually I hear introverts that act extroverted in situations, sometimes like get drained afterwards.

Catherine Hover: And the pressure right. So, like you know, you see people come up to you and say like oh, listen to your podcast. And you know that's like a responsibility. And you know people are listening to you, they're taking what you're saying and they're going out and acting on it, which you know could be a bad thing. So you just be careful, you know what you do put out into the world. So I'm trying to be very thoughtful and intentional of being a good role model, you know, and making sure that and the other piece too is like the transparency right, like I'm not going to stand up on a stage and pretend like I have all the answers and I know what the hell I'm doing. And I think that you know to be accessible to other people, like just to bestow on me their wisdom and shared experiences, is just huge. And I also think people see you out and about, and you too, Joe, and it's like, it's inspiring and it gets other people but giving them the you know confidence to put themselves out and put their messages out, and you know just like we're leveling the bar, I think.

Tom Schin: Or raising the bar.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Raising the bar?

Joe Bonilla: Raising the bar.

Tom Schin: Raising the bar and you're removing the fear, right? You see what's possible. Yes, certain things have to fall into place, but you see what's possible with the right energy, the right effort, the right support network right, and that's something that's one of the reasons we started the podcast was to share stories, share successes of different folks that maybe not everyone gets to sit down for coffee with or sit down and have a glass of wine with, and just get to know and feel like they're part of the conversation.

Catherine Hover: Well, I didn't get a glass of wine,

Miriam Dushane: Sorry…

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Definitely want the wine, where's the wine?

Miriam Dushane: Well, I think what's super important is we grew up. I mean, you guys aren't that far removed from my age. You're probably you and I are probably the closest in age, but you guys aren't far behind.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I'm 38. I'm 39.

Miriam Dushane: You're 39?

Tom Schin: I'm a lot older.

Miriam Dushane: I'm a lot older too. All right, sorry.

Joe Bonilla: Oof.

Tom Schin: Thanks, Miriam.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Sorry to squish that dream.

Tom Schin: I have the shortest… I have the shortest hair.

Miriam Dushane: Let me redo it. Let me redo, but what I'm saying…

Catherine Hover: Edit! Edit!

Miriam Dushane: Society has all taught us that things in our, in our background, or things that we've experienced may not be of the right mind. So, for example, you were formerly incarcerated and you talk openly about it. You suffered from um-

Catherine Hover: Bitches.

Miriam Dushane: No, you suffered from

Catherine Hover: Mean girls.

Miriam Dushane: Postpartum!

Postpartum, yes, that too. I thought we were going with the mean girl thing.

Miriam Dushane: But yes, you did have that too. But what I'm talking about,

Tom Schin: Oh God, Oh no.

Joe Bonilla: Off the rails, that's all, folks.

Catherine Hover: I've suffered from yeah, postpartum.

Miriam Dushane: But my point is is you talked about it, and that's something that doesn't get a lot of attention. For years I tried to not have any attention brought to my lack of education. And you know, for me, cause that was like a sticking point in my life where I didn't have a college degree and everybody around me had college degrees, and so I guess that I'm not as worthy because I didn't have a college degree, and that's (car-horn!). So the fact that you are bringing attention to your background so that other people can relate to it and look up to you guys, as these things are possible for me too, I think is super, super important, and it's part of the reason why I love you all.

Catherine Hover: I was actually having a conversation with someone who is in the process of opening up a co-working space of female focus organization, like similar to Palette and I'm so all about collaboration and like not reinventing the wheel. If I can share something with anybody,

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Yep!

Catherine Hover: like call me up, I'll tell you all the things and all the mistakes I made, like you know, doing a cafe first. So anyway, she's with. A lot of what we do at Palette is like ongoing consulting and coaching with our members, because the mission is to advance each of them in business and in life And they all have different needs, issues, wants, goals, et cetera. And uh, this woman who I was talking to she's like well, what, what expertise or what experience you have, or credentials do you have to be consulting people? And I was like I don't have any credentials. I mean, I just have, like you know, my own experience.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Lived experience..

Miriam Dushane: I was just gonna say lived experience, I think.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I just got these businesses that you could come by and see.

Catherine Hover: Right, exactly. My point, though, is that, like you know, she was of an older generation, and it was like you had to have the credentials. You had to have that, that you know, certificate of whatever to then feel confident enough to go and do the damn thing. So, and I think that younger generations up-and-coming, I would love to talk to you all about this how we get these young people to stay in our community. They're foregoing college, They're not getting the certificate, They're just like putting themselves out there. It's like a lot of flexible work, gig economy, like they're not staying with a job for 35 years…

Tom Schin: We were talking about that the other day.

Catherine Hover: and you know, it's like a totally different beast. And I think it's awesome. I think it's more of like an entrepreneurial mindset-

Trent Griffin-Braaf: 100%

Catherine Hover: Where it's like just you know you get one life and like why, if school is not for you, then don't waste your time there.

Miriam Dushane: Absolutely. So, Joe, let's talk about so you have two very different businesses in my opinion

Joe Bonilla: Three, technically.

Miriam Dushane: Three, Oh sorry,

Joe Bonilla: Two Buttons deep as well. So all three,

Miriam Dushane: That's right, that's right.

Miriam Dushane: Absolutely. So, why?

Joe Bonilla: Why all three? Because I just can't stop. You know, and that's the thing is like I look at this. As you know, when we started Relentless 11 years ago was because the same thing is like I tried doing the whole job route. It didn't work, and then we just created my own path from there. You know, with Rich, and then with Motor Oil, we were a little bat$%&#@! with that. Yeah, that was, that was the one where it was like. You know, and the same thing is like when you're in food and hospitality. It's a whole different thing. You got to be in it. You have to see it. Most people are like you know what, I'll do the one and done, and then we have five, and we never had any plans of doing that.

Tom Schin: Now was Motor Oil about the coffee or about the hospitality piece?

Joe Bonilla: It's both ends now, because we're doing farmers markets, we're doing events, we're doing retail, we're doing wholesale, we're doing the whole thing, and then we have franchising on top of that. That's going to start very soon, so. And then so we always refer to those two as, like the older kids and then there's Two Buttons deep.

Miriam Dushane: Yup.

Joe Bonilla: I play an integral role in their back end operations. Make sure they get out of trouble.

Miriam Dushane: Yeah, get out of trouble-

Joe Bonilla: But have helped shape their routes becoming a business from just an idea of two kids from Saratoga County on social media to now one of the fastest growing outlets in upstate New York.

Miriam Dushane: Absolutely.

Joe Bonilla: So it's, but it's again it's. I love about it and I love about even this whole process of Motor Oil coffee and with Two Buttons deep is it's truly still a startup and my work at Relentless we've worked with startups. We worked with startups to Fortune 500 and you get to see every little bit of it, Yeah, From every, the good, the bad, the ugly, the, what, the W-T-F, all of that together.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: So, Joe, which one is? Which one do you feel is like the most impactful? And the one that's going to detected be the one you ride off into the sunset?

Joe Bonilla: Probably Motor Oil coffee.

Miriam Dushane: Really?

Joe Bonilla: Yeah, I think the thing with Relentless is that it's a very high-touch business. Yeah, we have 44 clients and it requires a lot because it's every single day and there's concerns where it's like okay, this is a, you have one client that's doing great product announcement. Another client got arrested, another client- You know, there's maybe a factory explosion, whatever it could be and in that role that you are a counselor, you're a critic, you're an advisor, you're meant to shepherd them through the process. And I always tell folks when they when we're going through crisis com, especially, again, it's like you gotta tell me the truth. If I'm gonna be able to help you, you gotta tell me the truth. But I'll tell you what I'm like. No, tell me everything. It's not meant to judge, it's meant to shepherd you through that path. And again, we've been doing it for 11, going on 12 years by the end of the year. It's exhausting business, cause we have clients all across the country. So if there's one that's gonna set me off to the top, it's gonna be Motor Oil Coffee cause it's enjoyable, it's feel good, everybody loves a good cup of coffee. It's not controversial, it's good.

Miriam Dushane: Yeah well, it's not controversial until you start putting olive oil in your coffee.

Joe Bonilla: Yeah, we're not going to do that. No…

Miriam Dushane: That's disgusting. My daughter came home and she was like what the hell are they doing? And I'm like well just don't drink it.

Tom Schin: Somebody tries different things. I like what you said there about just diving in and getting folks to be honest with you, not from a truth and lie standpoint, but to open up and disclose things And so many business relationships. I'm only gonna give you this 10% because, this is what I want you to think of us. I don't want you to know what's under the hood. We run into it from a hiring standpoint. I know every business with every vendor runs into that from a partnership standpoint. We work with Paul and we work with Adam here at Overit and it's like they know our business.

Miriam Dushane: Yeah.

Joe Bonilla: Inside out.

Miriam Dushane: It's very scary.

Tom Schin: They know when we go off the rails, they know when we don't. But that creates the most truthful and open and honest relationship that you can be called out on your crap, but they also tell you when you're doing great.

Miriam Dushane: Well, I think those are the best business relationships is the true partnerships and when we talk to an organization we talk about listen, we wanna be your trusted partner. You're their trusted partner for PR.

Joe Bonilla: Correct.

Miriam Dushane: We're a trusted partner for recruitment. And if we're not a trusted partner and you just see us as a transaction, then we're probably not the right fit for you, because the best relationships, the best success that both sides are going to have is when you have partnerships.

Joe Bonilla: You gotta walk together in that path.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Transparency. Like you were saying.

Miriam Dushane: Yeah, exactly.

Catherine Hover: I mean, I think it's like an ode to just like how you live out your values day in day out in your business and in your life, and, I think, during COVID and in 2020, when, like see, essentially $%&#@! was hitting the fan in all aspects of the world, and I think that the way that a lot of us showed up during that time is why we're still here and relevant because we leaned into who we are, who our authentic selves are, what we believe in and when you have the opportunity to put this stake in the ground and like, share what you really give a $%&#@! about, you only attract those types of people in your life. So I really no, I shouldn't. I didn't mean to say, I didn't say, see, I stopped before I said something I was gonna regret. But in some ways you know, ya know COVID, was ya know a reckoning for a lot of people?

Miriam Dushane: Yeah.

Tom Schin: I think it's let us all be comfortable on our own skin to some extent. You saw a lot more entrepreneurs come out and try things. Try and fail, try again, try again, stumble, post it all? Right?

Catherine Hover: Get new jobs?

Tom Schin: Right!

Miriam Dushane: Well, I think that I think there was. There was such a, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but when COVID hit, I remember laying in bed watching TV and they were talking about these massive numbers of deaths, casualties, and it scared the $%&#@! out of me. I was like I said to my husband I was like I'm not leaving this house, I'm not going anywhere, and he's like Miriam, that's silly. Like my husband's such a practical man Thank God, because I'm not, but really and I think a lot of people they were affected by it. They lost loved ones, I lost colleagues. I mean, I vividly remember one of the first tragedies of COVID that I was connected to and I sobbed. I just sobbed. But I think that also really was like everybody was like F this life is too short. I need to be happy, I need to take care of my people, my family, my life, my job. If I'm not happy, it did empower and embolden a lot more people to step out and I think that's a good thing. I mean we should all be living genuine lives. Like that's not fun if you're not.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I agree, that's that. Go back to the article. So one thing they talked about was just that, like as an employer most employee, I remember someone told me a long time ago your employer will never pay you enough to be their neighbor or put you in a position to be their neighbor, and I just thought that was kind of unique. I was like I could see that. But that's unfortunate And you know that's a bad mindset, and so, like one thing I'm experiencing, notice, especially with the population that I tend to really be passionate about is the majority are entrepreneurs and so there's really no, they don't see themselves working for someone forever and I think employers I know employers better get hip to it. Because, like we were saying, you better be willing to support your team's initiatives with their goals outside of work the same way they're supporting your goals and your visions inside of work and I think, as employers smarten up or get in tune to that, they'll see a lot more success with the younger generation. You got to be flexible, you got to really pour into them and their visions and, as an entrepreneur, they can learn so much from you if you embrace that and then let them go like they're going to go on and do whatever they want to do anyway. So if you can help them and groom them and they could be an asset for your organization, even if it is a year or two, that year you're going to get the best version of that person while they were with you, and that's all you could really ask for-

Tom Schin: Right.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: And so I just think employers better get hip to it, or they're going to find out real quick that there is no longer staying around for 20 years and giving a nice watch, like those days are over with.

Tom Schin: I want a nice watch.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I do want a nice watch.

Miriam Dushane: I mean, I tell people, I talk to employers and they'll say things like oh, people don't want to work anymore. I'm like they don't want to work for you. They do want to work.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Right, right.

Miriam Dushane: They just don't want to work for what you're offering.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: True.

Tom Schin: I think we talk about that next generation piece. They're so used to and you can look at Instagram or some of the other channels that collaboration. I'm doing something, you're doing something, Let's do a poll. I get hit up all the time for stuff and usually it's crooked and sideways and probably sketchy stuff, But I don't.

Miriam Dushane: And he says yes to it. He's like all right, I'll give it a try.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Let's try this out.

Tom Schin: I need a hair tie, right. But they're so used to collaborating and doing stuff. There's a lot of creative. I mean, you see digital creator as a job. All right. Clearly you have 100,000 people following you and you're posting stuff. Something's going right, more than one thing. So that collaboration among businesses, I agree with you. I think that's a great point.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Has to be.

Miriam Dushane: It's more again, more partnerships, less competition and there's I believe there's enough business.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: There is.

Miriam Dushane: I mean the staffing industry in Albany. How many staffing firms are there in Albany?

Catherine Hover: There's a $%&#@!-ton of y'all.

Miriam Dushane: OK, thank you.

Catherine Hover: There's a lot of you.

Miriam Dushane: But we're doing fine.

Tom Schin: We're getting good use of that car-horn!

Miriam Dushane: We really are. Today's gonna be a great car-horn day.

Catherine Hover: But it's also a growing market- There are more people…

Miriam Dushane: That's the whole point, like there's enough business to go around.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I agree with you.

Miriam Dushane: Tom and I used to share business often. I'll never forget the time where I was at a restaurant having a lunch meeting. He comes into the same restaurant and happens to get seated right next to me with a client he's working with. He leans over and introduces me to his client and says you need to talk to her because she's the one that's gonna help you with those jobs. I'll help you with these jobs. She has to be the one that helps with those jobs. He didn't have to do that and he- I wasn't gonna take his business away from him, but he knew that I was going to be the best partner And oftentimes I'd be like you gotta call Tom Schin When we weren't working together, because that was more successful, for we were looking out for the best interests of our clients and we were collaborating and we were helping each other and neither one of us went out of business.

Tom Schin: Nope.

Miriam Dushane: He did eventually come work for me, though, by the way.

Tom Schin: She bought me a couple of lunches. We went to Gingerman once.

Miriam Dushane: Gingerman, which is now the Cuckoo's Nest.

Tom Schin: Yeah, and we went to Milano's.

Miriam Dushane: No the sushi place.

Tom Schin: In Latham, in the same plaza I forget the name of it up in Loudounville, near the year old Paint and Sip.

Miriam Dushane: We would get together, we'd- Koto.

Tom Schin: That's where the restaurant handoff was. I remember who it was. I remember who she was having lunch with, too. Yeah, so one of our former guests.

Miriam Dushane: Yeah, I know it.

Tom Schin: So I'm gonna bring us back into our theme here with the HR on the car. I wanna know, in the last, since you've been on the show or it could have been the last month you picked the timeframe. What was your most memorable flat tire moment and what you got from it?

Miriam Dushane: Oh, I didn't even know this was coming.

Joe Bonilla: I started with, the- Trent first. Yeah.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Can we redefine a flat tire moment?

Tom Schin: Something that went more awry than you wanted it to.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: OK, I've got one.

Tom Schin: It doesn't necessarily have to be a success right, it can be just a lesson.

Miriam Dushane: Or something you learned?

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Yeah. I've got one. Well, it's not work.

Tom Schin: I mean you could have had a flat tire too. I mean you have lots of it. You have lots of it.

Miriam Dushane: I mean you have a fleet, right I'm giving you the air fresheners for the whole fleet.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Knock on wood, no flat tires. But, um…

Miriam Dushane: He's like NO! That's my worst nightmare!

Trent Griffin-Braaf: We don't need any of that maintenance stuff. One of the biggest things? Well, all right, so one thing we did is we purchased the four property unit. This is outside of the business and this is another business. So we purchased a four unit in Troy, city-owned, and so me and my wife, we buy city owned properties.

Tom Schin: That was in the paper.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife's story, yeah, yeah, and so actually that was court- talking about collaboration. Catherine invited us to the track and then my wife ended up connecting with someone, and that's how all of that, naturally just changed…

Tom Schin: So Catherine's fault?

Miriam Dushane: See? Oh, OK-

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Yeah, yeah, Catherine.

Catherine Hover: The flat tire's my fault?

Trent Griffin-Braaf: The flat tire's your fault.

Miriam Dushane: Maybe. Let's hear the rest of the story first.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: All right. So back to the flat tire. So we get this four-unit property. When you own, it- every city does it different, and uh so this was the first time we bought a city-owned in Troy and you don't get to see it. It's a blind purchase…

Miriam Dushane: What?

Trent Griffin-Braaf: …all the way through, so you don't know what's wrong with it?

Tom Schin: No pictures, anything?

Catherine Hover: So are these, are these properties that are like, they didn't pay their taxes, like tax defaults you pay up to the…

Joe Bonilla: Through the land bank, or…

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Yeah, I don't know how they become city owned properties. I think that does play a part in it…

Well, we can talk about this, you keep going with your story.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: All right.

Catherine Hover: Because my dad does this in New Orleans and it's unbelievable how many people just don't pay their…

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Their taxes…

Catherine Hover: They're property taxes.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: And then they lose it.

Catherine Hover: And they lose their house.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: It's true, and so we get this property, finally go. They don't even have a key to the property We close and there's no key. They're just like figure it out. And so we, so we uh…

Miriam Dushane: Run… [visual]

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Essentially that's what…

Tom Schin: Good thing this is on video.

Miriam Dushane: Where's the axe?

Trent Griffin-Braaf: We got to get inside. So we get inside, "boom, boom, boom" We're getting in. I have a locksmith coming. He's getting us in. The one door we can't get in. I'm like what's wrong? What's wrong with this door? Like it's something. It feels like something's jamming it. Then we heard a dog bark.

Tom Schin: Oh…

Miriam Dushane: Nooooo.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Oh What's going on here? And then so finally, I'm like you know what? Someone's in the apartment.

Catherine Hover: Oh, somebody's staying there.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Right, so we purchased an apartment with someone, a house with someone in it. Now, that's not even the crazy part.

Miriam Dushane: The flat-tire part?

Trent Griffin-Braaf: So now, we're dealing with that, but we're starting the renovation process. One day I come in with the contractor. My wife is with me, the contractor's with me. We're walking upstairs. We just walked two of the units. We're going up to one of the units. Soon as I come in there's someone like laid out on the floor and I'm like the contractor said it "are they dead?" And as soon as they said that, then the person was like "I'm not dead."

Tom Schin: Ghosts rising out of the floor.

Miriam Dushane: Oh God, I would have just screamed - AHHH!

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I'm not dead.

Joe Bonilla: "I'm not dead!"

Trent Griffin-Braaf: And then just starts getting up! I'm like what is going on here right now.

Miriam Dushane: Oh, no.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: And so come to find out the. It looked like it was boarded up properly. They didn't board it up properly, so it was just a board there. Individuals in the community knew that, and this has been a vacant property for some time, so they would just come in and this was the spot.

Tom Schin: Crash, yeah.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: So, yeah, the crash spot. So that's been an interesting thing to navigate. We're still in the process of navigating.

Catherine Hover: Because they have squatters rights. Yeah, so they don't have to leave.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: No. Squatters, they might have more rights than we have.

Catherine Hover: Wow, interesting.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: It's very interesting arena to be in.

Miriam Dushane: So that sounds more like four flat tires.

Tom Schin: A little knocking in the engine.

Joe Bonilla: Yeah…

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Oh, I can keep going have a car that's knocking the engine right now…

Miriam Dushane: Transmission leaking…

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I can keep going, as we all…

Tom Schin: Not the shuttles.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: This is personal. This is personal.

Miriam Dushane: Yeah, the shuttles are in very fine working condition.

Joe Bonilla: Those are fine. Those are all fine.

Miriam Dushane: Disclaimer.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: This is personal. This is a personal vehicle, but people always see all of the glitz, the glamour, but they don't see all of the stuff that takes place behind the clothed scene. So you have flat tires. That's my flat tire story.

Tom Schin: Right, and you're going to recover from those. It's not, you know…

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Oh, 100%, it's a flat tire. It's going to get fixed.

Tom Schin: Right.

Miriam Dushane: Exactly.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: And eventually you'll be right back on the road rolling again, so…

Miriam Dushane: Look at that.

Catherine Hover: Yes.

Tom Schin: Alright, your turn, Catherine.

Catherine Hover: Okay, oh my God, there are so many.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Right.

Catherine Hover: I just have to point out that there are just so many failures or flat tires and I mean I think, like I always say, like failure is the mother of success, so you got to get through that before you can get to the other side of it. But, I mean, honestly, when I started Palette, I was hell bent on creating like this awesome coffee shop space where we could, you know, gather and do programming and stuff. But the focus was just like going into a coffee shop and being, you know, served a cup of coffee with a smile and a "Hey, how are you, how's it going? Okay, great, have a good day." And it stemmed from me walking into coffee shops and not feeling, like, you know, supported, like I needed. I didn't just need the caffeine, I needed like the community.

Miriam Dushane: The love.

Catherine Hover: Yeah, So, um, and you know, I think we opened in June of 2019 and two months after we opened that cafe is when I started talking about the co-working space on top of the cafe and building up this community for ourselves and what I needed in my life that was missing. And you know, again, I don't have any regrets because I feel like you got to get one. You got to go through that, you know, but essentially, we I didn't need to build a coffee shop, um, to build community. And you know, it was like a very big dis, like, disillusion for me, Like I felt like there needed to be this tangible place for people to go, um, and a way to get them inside the space. Then we could have these like awesome conversations and build the community. So, you know, at the end of 2021, I ultimately decided to like kill the cafe, you know, and we we did hand it off to a girl named Kelly. She opened up the Broadway Grind. It's still an operation in downtown Saratoga and it's it's just was such a relief to be able to get that off of of my plate, But I certainly felt like, oh my gosh, you hear about it all the time. It gets a roller coaster, and you know that is kind of like what happens when you don't have a you know, a clear, defined plan. Um, I am not of the mindset of like working things out until their you know all, all the issues are flushed out, because you're always just going to have more issues that come up.

Miriam Dushane: Right, mmm hmm.

Catherine Hover: So I'm more of like a, you know leap and then look, build, build, the plane on the way down um, and you know, sometimes you crash and I think that it was, it all led to where I am now, but it was. It was tough emotionally to be like, okay, yeah, I'm literally shutting, shutting the door here.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Did it feel like it was a failure, that's why?

Catherine Hover: I felt like it was a waste of energy, you know, like, had I just started to what I really wanted to do on day one and like fully believe that this was a need and it was, there was a, there was a fit here. You know, I could have had more energy and, I know this is like a funny thing coming for me, because I am pretty high energy but like during COVID, it's like you know, I think I'm right now feeling like that, I'm just like realizing what we all went through, you know, and I'm finding people are finally coming back into Paint and Sip and you know that business certainly took a hit badly. So it's like you know I pivoted, but you know you have to keep pivoting, you have to keep reinventing the wheel and it's just, it's, it's exhausting. So I would say that that like shutting down the Café was, and it was also just like made me remember having to close Paint and Sip in Latham, which we closed. You know, at the end of the day that rent was way more expensive than downtown Saratoga, surprisingly enough.

Miriam Dushane: Wow, really?

Catherine Hover: And it was a totally different vibe, you know, like it was suburbs, it wasn't downtown, so it was just like a totally different thing, and having to shut that down was just like brought back all those memories.

Miriam Dushane: I didn't even realize that that was your shop. I actually did something there with my girlfriend. We did a Saturday night type of thing a couple of years ago.

Catherine Hover: Oh fun! Yeah, yeah, it was right af-

Tom Shine: So the real question is, is the painting still hanging?

Miriam Dushane: Yeah, actually it is. It's up at my little camp and it's a, it was Friends themed?

Tom Schin: Perfect.

Miriam Dushane: So it was the sofa and the fountain-

Catherine Hover: Oh cool. Yeah, yeah.

Tom Schin: What you said, Catherine, there it's just resonates with me because I know you like to talk about kindness and collaboration as kind of the engine for economic development. But I think that coffee shop was part of that story? Although you had to kind of shut it and kind of put it to another path. For a community member and I would go through and I had many coffees there with lots of folks. But I think it's still part of that process to get you where you are today, like you wouldn't necessarily well you might have had energy to go elsewhere. That energy was focused in on there and it created something for other folks to create, embellish, get to connect and collaborate and work together and just form relationships. So don't discredit that. I think there's a lot of wins out of that.

Catherine Hover: Oh yeah, like. I don't want it to sound like I'm you know, who is me, because I'm fine, I'm fine, everything's good, but like also that that also stemmed from, like, the landlord I just had run into him and, like back to relationships, I just knew the guy, you know, and the business was going out of business. It was like a dress shop. And I was like, well, Jim, that shouldn't even be a dress shop. That is like it's like such a cute little patio area, like, make that a coffee shop. That's what it should be. We need more coffee shops on this block, and then I just like kept connecting the dots and one thing led to another, and you know so, now that that place is a coffee shop, I still get coffee there around the corner of my house and it's all good. But so, you know, I like to think of myself as like a little bit of a, like a mini economic developer. You, know, that should be a coffee shop. Someone's going to do it so I guess I'll do it and then we'll hand it off to someone else.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: And then we'll get someone else. Love it. Love it.

Miriam Dushane: How about you Joe?

Joe Bonilla: Well it's funny with the coffee shop theme being an example of trials and tribulations, because years ago I did co-own another coffee shop, and it was done in collaboration with a now former client and I thought, okay, it would be kind of great, always wanted to own a coffee shop since like college, and so we found a place right on Delaware Avenue in Albany. At first it seemed great, good partner. I've known him for a while and every step of the way it got worse and worse and worse. I was footing the bill for all the fit-up And it was just fraying, you know, we were good friends too and I frayed the friendship on top of that to the point where it was severely affecting how I was able to work with clients at Relentless. So I, you know, I set-up a different time like, gave suggestions. They were immediately knocked down. I said, hey, we should probably add beer, wine and cider because the movie theater's right next door. No, it'll never work, whatever. So after about a year got out of there and then discovered that he never filed any taxes. So that was a whole other thing, too. Right? The gift that kept on giving...and so here's the thing. So then, that shop eventually closed and turns out somebody did go in there. They did do beer, wine and cider. It's a smashing success there. So it required, like, going through those trials and tribulations, learning about that process. So therefore, it's like, okay, don't do this, don't do this, find the right people and then let's try it again for Motor Oil, right? And that's how it happened. I have one other small plant tire, on the Relentless side. So we had worked with this one client, a national client, and the end of 2019, on Boxing Day, they gave us the least Christmas. They told we're done for the following year. It was December of 2019 and they represented 44% of our billings.

Miriam Dushane: Oh my gosh.

Joe Bonilla: And so we had to figure this out, me and my business partner. People came back after holiday break and then we found that some of our employees were then going to work with the client.

Miriam Dushane: Nooooooo, that's ugly.

Joe Bonilla: Okay, so there was a whole cataclysmic thing, right. So we're like we got to figure out this whole Me and short the rest of our team like we're fine, we will persevere. Then, three months later, COVID happened, and then we became a resource for a lot of different companies and businesses. Some former clients, current clients and some prospective clients on trying to interpret guidance on the federal and state level. And we were able to recover pretty quickly in that era. But it was just like both of those times exhausting. And I think for the three of us, actually everybody here in this room, we all understand those points of perseverance and to be able to work through it And we use those lessons to be able to kind of figure out the next big thing from there.

Miriam Dushane: Definitely, So we have to wrap up soon. I'm very sad It went fast, didn't it? But I had asked you all to come with a question for Tom and I, so if we can do this in like a lightning round format, I think that's probably going to keep us on time, because everybody knows how I am about time. And then I have people whispering in my ear. You got four minutes left. So I'm gonna start with Joe.

Joe Bonilla: All right. So because I'm a little bit quirky with this, so I put my shirt on one button here, one button here in the middle, up top. How do you two-

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Every time? That's legit?

Joe Bonilla: Yes, yes, it's legit.

Miriam Dushane: Alright, so hold on. I'm just gonna say it is not a good system, because dude misses buttons and the first meeting we ever had is coming out now Joe, you did it. I wasn't gonna bring it up, but it's coming out now buddy.

Joe Bonilla: I wanted you to bring it up, because- all for the content!

Miriam Dushane: Literally sits down in front of me and I'm short, Joe's tall, he's across for me, the seats aren't level and I'm looking at his chest and I literally see chest hair sticking out of his shirt-

Joe Bonilla: And I had gone to three other press conferences that morning.

Miriam Dushane: Dude, dude.

Catherine Hover: I thought, as a guy you're supposed to start at the bottom right? Isn't that how you were taught?

Joe Bonilla: I am a weird quirky man.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I start on the top.

Miriam Dushane: I don't do a lot of button up shirts. I do a lot of slip over my heads.

Joe Bonilla: Yeah, yeah.

Catherine Hover: Yeah, I don't do a lot of button…

Miriam Dushane: I pop my collar. I'm a pop my collar kind of person.

Catherine Hover: You are! You are a popped collar person. What is that?

Tom Schin: She's like the old Nike polo shirt from the 80s.

Miriam Dushane: That's like from my 90s high school days.

Catherine Hover: I love it. I love it.

It's my signature style.

Tom Schin: I bet she has leg warmers at home.

Miriam Dushane: I don't. I don't.

Catherine Hover: 90's fashion is back, it's offish.

Tom Schin: It never left.

Miriam Dushane: That's right. So Tom, how do you button your shirt?

Tom Schin: I go top down, top down, Except for the top one when I wear a tie that has to come last. I don't like, like. It's hard to get your arms like this, and you can see it on video.

Joe Bonilla: Fair enough, yeah yeah, yeah.

Tom Schin: This is always the last one, but I go top down.

Miriam Dushane: Great question, love it. Love it.

Joe Bonilla: Had to do it.

Miriam Dushane: Catherine…

Catherine Hover: He's top down?

Miriam Dushane: Yea he's top down too.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Me? Yeah, I'm top down, too. But I'll leave this one until the tie actually goes.

Tom Schin: And I hate the buttons on the collar.

Catherine Hover: And when you wear a hoodie Trent, you don't even have to deal with that.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Oh hoodies, yeah. Hoodies, we're good, just throw that thing on.

Miriam Dushane: That's right.

Catherine Hover: Yeah, well, I'm gonna kick it to Trent. Yeah, you go next, cause my question is really good and a great closing question.

Miriam Dushane: Okay.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: You discounted my question. I might have a great question.

Joe Bonilla: That's fair, that's fair…

Miriam Dushane: Ohhhhh, throw down!

Catherine Hover: Do you wanna go simultaneously? We'll both as at the same time.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I'll go, I'll go. Yours is way probably better, way better.

Tom Schin: You can flip the air freshener. See? For the cameras. We have air fresheners. They say HR in the Car.
?
Trent Griffin-Braaf: My question to you is what allergies do you have? What do you struggle with Cause, I went and got, I have allergies. I've been getting shots for years well, for some years now.

Tom Schin: Do you need her fingerprints too, and social security number?

Trent Griffin-Braaf: No, i'm just wondering because I'm allergic to everything.

Miriam Dushane: I'm allergic to, the worst part though is the thing I'm most allergic to is dust.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Me, too. I am, too.

Miriam Dushane: And dust is freaking everywhere And so, and then mildew and mold spores are my triggers, which are freaking everywhere.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Everywhere. Yes, yes.

Miriam Dushane: So I went to the doctor because I was like I was having these terrible sinus headaches. And I said well, my daughter thinks I'm taking too many medicines cause she thinks she knows everything after one year of pharmacy school, she actually does know a lot. I can't wait for her to be a pharmacist, but anyway, and the doctor is like I'm gonna add another one, and so I'm on three and if you count Benadryl, four. But if that does, that did work. I started, I have Allegra, Nasocort and then there's another one I can't remember the name of Singular, Singular. The Singular took away my headaches. And I was having terrible sinus headaches. But if, for some reason, they start to get worse again, I'm actually gonna go to the doctor and see about the shots because I'm dying.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: No, I was like that, I'm allergic to everything. Like when they do the tests, every single thing popped up.

Miriam Dushane: Yeah, me, too, I had- it's ridiculous.

Joe Bonilla: What is the sweet family thing?

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Yeah right, we're gonna have to take you in, and so I struggled with that. I never had the headaches, though, but my eyes, my congestion. I'm actually a little congested right now and the allergy shots have been working, though.

Miriam Dushane: Good to know.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: I've come a long way.

Miriam Dushane: Good to know because someone else told me they had them when they were a child and they were life changing and I need life changing right now.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: They have been life-changing.

Miriam Dushane: Because it's last week with the smoke, I was dying.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah - I'm with you. I'm definitely with you.

Miriam Dushane: And I didn't realize how bad it was until it was really bad.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: 100% with you and then one question for you too, Tom. Yeah, so someone introduced me to work you were doing outside of this work-

Catherine Hover: Yes! Yes!

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Yes and so I just wanted to know, like, what are you doing in that space and what's your goal, like your long-term goal?

Tom Schin: My long-term goal, my goal is to. So I run a small business. It's just me and supported by Alaant that you know, Miriam, that was one of the things coming on board. It's called Build Better Culture, and so my input is behind that is to help people build better, like you have a culture, make it better. It doesn't need to be the best. Yeah, you want it to be the best. Make it a little bit better. People will want to stay just a little bit more. Instead of two people lost in a year, you only lost one right, And that's a trickle-down effect. And so, yeah, that hit me. So I'll give credit back to Paul Kelly, because you know the thought process behind this from way beyond my staffing years was in publishing and there's a management training program and just kind of seeded that piece. You train your frontline managers how to do things better? More people will stay. And when I left that organization, all my sales team, their numbers just started to go down and people were kind of, well, he wasn't that good because they all dumped. They're like no, no, no, no, they all went down because he left. That's right. I'm like, oh, I like that, thank you and so I've always tucked that feather in the back of my head, but I wanted to share that knowledge, right, you don't need everything. One thing like I had a presentation recently and you know I read the reviews after and I thought it was pretty good and one of them said "meh," and it took me like weeks to be like To get over that one.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: To get over that one.

Joe Bonilla: I'm like oh, like.

Tom Schin: But it's real, though, like you can't affect everybody, agreed, agreed. I know I connected with several that thought, hey, this message hit home. So yeah, thanks, nice little plug, I appreciate that.

Catherine Hover: And you do. It's the culture talk stuff. So right? Yeah, So you are a hero?

Tom Schin: I'm a hero. I'm a big hero, caregiver, and creator. So plug in from my Culture Talk folks, and cat allergies is my thing, and so you can look up dogs are better than cat on Instagram because cats suck. I hate cats.

Miriam Dushane: What am I?

Tom Schin: You're a Hero. I'm a Hero, too. You're a Ruler.

Miriam Dushane: That's right. Oh yes-

Tom Schin: And it's not a bad thing, right? So you want to have culture talk conversations?

Miriam Dushane: Yes, YES. I forgot that stuff.

Catherine Hover: Yeah, it's really awesome stuff.

Miriam Dushane: Yeah, totally.

Tom Schin: Thanks.

Catherine Hover: That's like you know… I was introduced that to that when we first met through-

Tom Schin: Theresa-

Catherine Hover: A business development group with up in Saratoga, and and yeah, it's like I still think about all that stuff all the time and hiring for that, right? Like you know you, you may not be able to work with somebody that's a Hero, because it might step on your toes.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: True, very true.

Tom Schin: That never happens at our office…

Catherine Hover: Alright, my question is like is there going to be a Season 2?

Miriam Dushane: Aw!

Catherine Hover: HR in the Car?

Miriam Dushane: That wasn't even scripted. Thank you so much.

Catherine Hover: Do you keep it going? I mean, you do. You do keep it going, right?

Miriam Dushane: The answer is yes, and if it's for nothing else, the selfish reason is is I'm having way too much fun doing this to stop, and the feedback so far has been fantastic and he and I, I think we got a good thing going. Yep, he and I have such a great relationship. I truly love this guy to work with him. He's, his birthday was last week, so I was like you are like one of the greatest guys I know, and I mean that sincerely so to do this with him and to keep talking to people like you, absolutely. Yes.

Tom Schin: We're already starting our list, so if you have suggestions, we want to hear.

Miriam Dushane: We need people. We do really need people.

Catherine Hover: Have you had your colleague Lauren Valentine on the show because she, I met her last week of the week before that. She is pretty spectacular.

Miriam Dushane: You know one of the things we might consider doing for the next season is pull in maybe some Alaant people, but the purpose of it is to put the spotlight on other businesses, other community leaders and the good that's happening around us.

Catherine Hover: Yeah.

Miriam Dushane: So maybe, but uh, thank you for saying that, because I think Lauren is a friggin' rockstar.

Tom Schin: I feel like we get good episodes with her every day.

Miriam Dushane: We actually really do.

Catherine Hover: I do want to point out that a lot of people you know think "smallbany". Yeah, I said it. I said it. But it's like, I think it's such a strength to have a close-knit collaborative community. Like you know, maybe you saw, or you could have seen Tom as a competitor. You could have, you know what I'm saying like, Lauren worked for another company, that that you know she works for you. So I just think it's awesome. You never know what people are going to land.

Miriam Dushane: Exactly.

Catherine Hover: So you gotta be kind to everybody, dammit.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: That's a fact, that's a fact.

Miriam Dushane: Well, you know what? Thank you, be a good human.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: There it is, there it is.

Miriam Dushane: It's not hard to be a good human and be kind, and on that note, I'm going to say thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. This, I didn't know where this conversation was going to go, but I think this was car-horn $%&#@!-in fantastic! Just saying.

Catherine Hover: I agree.

Joe Bonilla: You both are Amazing.

Trent Griffin-Braaf: Agreed.

Miriam Dushane: Thank you so much.

Tom Schin: Thanks guys.